Interview: Dr Jon Shaw - UK Transport Expert
09 Oct 2003

1. I have been informed that the transport in the
There is an element of truth in this statement, but overall, the opposite is in fact the case. It should really be easier to construct a high quality transport system in
Elsewhere, there are different problems. To take
On the second part of the question, see the answer to Question 6.
2. Why on earth dont the government stop trying to build more roads as a solution to congestion in the
In essence, Labour underestimated the difficulty of getting people out of their cars. The mindset of the car owning democracy popularised by the Conservatives has proved hard to challenge as people expect to use their cars when and where they like. Drivers also perceive there to be no, or very limited, alternatives to most car journeys. Care must be taken when interpreting this view because the majority of journeys made in
The government was at first too slow to invest in major public transport improvements ministers committed themselves to the Conservatives pre-election spending plans for two years although a greatly increased investment programme has now been put in place. Unfortunately, however, a range of further obstacles, the most notable being the crisis in the railway industry, is frustrating progress. The railways are unlikely to be in a position to achieve any major increase in capacity over the next few years despite the partial renationalisation of the industry through the creation of Network Rail.
In countries like
This is all in some contrast to road investment, where virtually all of the network remains in public ownership. While private contractors build the infrastructure they have little to do with its financing and operation. Largely because of this, road schemes are now much easier to complete than their rail equivalents and, given that so many of us drive cars, they are often much more popular with voters. It is perhaps no surprise, therefore, that despite its original intention to pursue roads as a last resort, the government finds itself falling back on the kind of large scale road building favoured by the Conservatives to address the countrys congestion problems. Indeed, one recent study has found that if all of Labours road proposals come to fruition and there are good reasons to assume that they will by the end of the current decade the Party will be responsible for as many roads per year as the predict and provide Conservatives. Quite why simpler procurement techniques are not employed for large-scale public transport projects is a matter for the government, but there can be no doubt that this remains an impediment to the development of a world class public transport system in the UK.
3. When will the government take a radical approach to reduce traffic on our roads? Until public transport is made safe, efficient and affordable people will continue to use their cars. Would you agree that the drivers/owners of large vehicles (4x4s, Jeeps, Fast Cars etc.) should be taxed more heavily due to their high consumption of fuel? If they can afford such expensive vehicles that are so damaging to the environment, then surely they can afford to pay higher road taxes. What do you think?
There are a couple of separate questions here. On the first one, I wouldnt hold your breath. The answer to the last question set out a few reasons why Labours transport policy has not delivered as much as many hoped it might. Radical options remain available, though, and one of them is road user charging.
Regarding fuel tax, drivers of large vehicles are already taxed more heavily than those with small cars because they pay more road tax and use more petrol / diesel. The government could certainly increase road tax even more for drivers of particularly gas-guzzling cars such as Jeeps or (God forbid) Hummers, but ministers are unlikely to pursue a large raise in fuel tax for large cars given the sensitivity of the subject. My preference would be for road user charging to be brought in and road tax to be abolished for drivers of cars with engines of (say) 1600cc and below. Drivers of cars with larger engines would face a continued road tax and a higher road user charge than everyone else, to be determined on a sliding scale according to the size of their engine.
4. I have been reading about the development of vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells. I wondered if you thought the large vehicle manufacturers are ever really likely to want to develop them (or any other environmentally friendly powered vehicles) to the level of mass use similar to that of regular vehicles today?
On the face of it, the widespread adoption of vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells seems a panacea in terms of resolving transport-related pollution problems. The fuel cell takes in hydrogen (which can be produced from water and solar energy) and produces electricity with water and heat as its only by-products. Although they have been known about for around 150 years, increasing environmental concern in some cases manifested through legislation and deregulated electricity markets in many countries have led to a great deal of research and development being undertaken recently.
As with any new source of energy, though, there are drawbacks. Some of these are relatively minor and should in theory be straightforward to overcome. There is, for example, a lack of dedicated infrastructure (petrol station equivalents), and storage difficulties will arise in the immediate future. Developing standardised specifications will also be necessary in order to maximise convenience and / or economies of scale.
But the biggest obstacle to the widespread adoption of the hydrogen fuel cell is its dependence on platinum as a catalyst. (Techno enthusiasts may like to know that, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency, platinum is dispersed on the surfaces of the proton exchange membrane to catalyse the dissociation and ionisation of molecular hydrogen at the anode and the oxidation reaction at the cells cathode.) Platinum is comparatively rare and it would take 66 years to convert only the American vehicle fleet even if around half of current world production levels were dedicated to the task. If US platinum consumption remained at its present level of 16 per cent of world production, fleet conversion would take 146 years. Moreover, a large increase in the demand for platinum would result in the already-precious metal gaining considerably in value and this additional cost will be reflected in the cost of fleet conversion.
In short, given current technology hydrogen fuel cells are no quick fix to the pollution associated with vehicle operation. Even if they were, they would do nothing to address congestion and would still need to be introduced as part of an integrated transport strategy to suppress demand for car transport which may otherwise increase as the environmental imperative to reduce car use would disappear (see the answer to Question 6 below). Continuing research into fuel cells should yield positive results, however, and if nothing else the finite nature of oil reserves means that vehicle manufacturers and legislators will and should maintain a keen interest in their development as a highly promising alternative to the internal combustion engine.
5. Is the
The
Travelling through other European countries it is not difficult to see that their transport systems are in many ways so much better than our own. In short, this is because the
Another key point to note is that the
With reference to public transport subsidy, Austria pays up to 70 per cent of the running costs of its bus services, and Belgium, Italy and the Netherlands all provide 60 per cent or over. Our bus services receive 32 per cent, the lowest in the EU, although, in fairness, they are the most efficient as measured by operating costs per passenger kilometre. The amount we spend on railways has actually increased quite considerably in the past few years, but the mess created by privatisation has led to most of that increase being swallowed up by increased costs (see the answer to Question 7). The low subsidies result in fares which are high by European standards. For any mode of public transport, fares in the
One area in which the
Against this background it is perhaps no surprise that the public are rather pessimistic on transport issues. According to another CfIT study, although 64 per cent of people in
6. Do you believe congestion charging and road pricing is the right way to achieve a better balance of public and private transport usage in the
Yes. The main advantage of road user charging is that it promotes a more rational use of road space by making drivers pay something approaching the real cost of using it. A common perception in the
What is more, some analysts estimate that there is a significant gap which could easily run to several billion pounds per year between the amount of revenue raised through motoring taxes and the overall cost to society of road vehicles. Such a gap comes about because the costs associated with the externalities of vehicles use the time penalty of congestion, environmental damage associated with pollution, noise, land take, visual intrusion, ill health, accidents, community severance, etc. are greater than the total amount raised from fuel duty, road tax, VAT on new vehicle purchases and so on. It is very difficult to measure the value of some externalities, and although various accepted methodologies exist, there is debate over the accuracy of individual studies since so much depends on the assumptions made by the researcher and these can vary depending on the purpose of the research.
A distance-based road user charge is being introduced for freight vehicles in 2006 (
The introduction of the charge is nevertheless important because it will use and therefore offers the opportunity to trial technology which will allow for variations in charges to be made depending on, say, the time of day travel takes place, with higher charges applying during rush hour. Under this kind of system, traffic not contributing to congestion such as that travelling between peaks or in rural areas would pay only a very minimal road user charge or even nothing at all. As a result drivers would be given an incentive to spread their journeys over more of the day and thereby avoid, and help reduce, congestion. It is such a scheme that would probably be employed if the government decides to press ahead with road user charging for all vehicles.
Until recently, ministers have been lukewarm to the idea of road user charging. Provisions for local authorities to introduce a charge, and keep any proceeds provided they are spent on transport projects, were included in the Transport Act (2000) but never pushed by ministers who almost certainly were wary of the potential political fallout. Initially around 35 local authorities expressed an interest in starting up road user and workplace parking charging schemes, but now it seems likely that only three (including London and Durham, where schemes already operate) will have pursued the former, and one the latter, by 2010. But the success of the
The Commission for Integrated Transport estimates that a scheme designed to vary charges according to time of day or road conditions could reduce congestion on the UKs road network by up to 44 per cent even if it were revenue-neutral, i.e. where charges are offset by reductions in fuel duty or road tax. A scheme which operated alongside existing taxes could therefore achieve even more while at the same time raise considerable funds for simultaneous (or preferably advance) investment in pedestrian, cycling and public transport schemes to offer motorists leaving their cars at home an improved choice of alternatives. Continued road investment would also be necessary where localised congestion remained, not least since drivers paying more to use the road network would feel they had more of a right to demand it (although this is a debatable point).
There are many obstacles still to overcome before UK-wide road user charging could be introduced successfully. Among these are technological shortcomings (difficulties remain with GPS based systems and refinements are needed), cost (the London scheme has proved extremely expensive to operate with a large proportion of revenues being swallowed up by installation and administration expenses) and concerns over civil liberties (satellite monitoring will enable the government to track drivers movements, speed and other motoring habits at any given time). Nevertheless, provided road user charging is not used simply as a means of raising money for the Treasury, it should be pursued nationwide as soon as practically possible.
7. We hear a lot about the trains getting worse compared with the old British Rail. But my memories of the railways have always been tinged with a general sense of dissatisfaction are the railways worse now?
Well, the $64 million question! There have certainly been some positives since privatisation. Passenger and freight traffic has increased in both absolute and relative terms. The number of passenger kilometres travelled rose to the higher than the 1950s (although the number of passenger journeys is still some way behind) and the amount of freight moved was returning to 1991 levels (the early 1990s were particularly bad for BRs freight business).
Some of this growth in traffic, which is welcome in the context of an integrated, or sustainable, transport policy, is attributable to the efforts of the private sector railway companies. Innovative marketing campaigns allied with good value off-peak deals (Apex-style tickets have fallen in cost by 5.6 per cent over the past eight years) have attracted more leisure travellers on to the trains. Heavy investment in new and refurbished rolling stock has improved the comfort of many journeys. Around £3 billion has been spent on new passenger rolling stock and £803 million has been invested in freight rolling stock. The average age of passenger trains in service has fallen to 19.33 years, and this will fall further when the Mark 1 rolling stock operating to the south of
The number of passenger train kilometres is 20 per cent higher than at the time of privatisation in other words, more trains are running on the network. This has, however, produced problems of overcrowding and congestion, and the Strategic Rail Authority is beginning to remove certain trains as part of the Capacity Utilisation Strategy it has designed to increase punctuality. There are also a range of other benefits, such as first class lounges, the National Rail Enquiry Service (getting telephone information out of BR was quite a challenge at times) and its associated website, nationalrail.co.uk. Rail magazine editor Nigel Harris also argues that the customer service on some companies, such as GNER, has improved beyond all measure since privatisation. It is worth saying in addition that although there have been a number of high profile accidents since privatisation which some commentators attribute directly to the privatised operating regime the railways safety record remains impressive and, statistically speaking, has not worsened.
All of this has, however, come at a price. As noted, there has been increased congestion and this, coupled with the effects of the Hatfield accident, has resulted in punctuality falling to around 80 per cent (70 per cent on long distance lines), worse than under
The most significant increase has been in the amount of government subsidy required to prop up the privatised railway. Support in the last year of BRs operation as a single unit (before it was reorganised for privatisation) was £1,627 million. The figure had hovered around the £2,000 million mark in the early 1990s, although this historically high amount was influenced by necessary Channel Tunnel works. Subsidy increased immediately after privatisation to around £2,500 million and then fell back to around £1,800 million before rising again to £3,387 million last year (and that is not including £374 million provided to the Channel Tunnel Rail Link constructors).
Some of the increase in subsidy following privatisation has been offset by proceeds from selling railway assets, but much more is accounted for by the blunders of Railtrack (now replaced by Network Rail), train operating companies and, inevitably, politicians. The costs of running the railway have increased so much that although last year over £4,000 million was invested (there is overlap with the subsidy figure here), comparatively little of that will be spent on actually enhancing the system. Such levels of investment were all but unimaginable in the days of BR but it is extremely likely that had they been forthcoming, they would have bought a great deal more at far better value.
One final point worth considering is that a reasonable proportion of the growth which has occurred on the railway since BR was sold has probably been nothing to do with privatisation at all. Road traffic is up, people (wrongly) perceive that car travel is too expensive and the fortunes of the railway are bound up with the fortunes of the economy. The recovery of the latter from recession in the mid 1990s will undoubtedly have impacted upon passenger numbers. Although the increase has been more swift and consistent than in earlier, pre-privatisation booms, it is unlikely that the number of new journeys would have been anywhere near as high in the absence of sustained economic growth.
So, from this short collection of evidence some conclusions can be drawn. In essence, taxpayers are coughing up a lot more money for a higher but ultimately unsustainable number of trains, which are newer but less punctual. On average, all passengers are paying more to use the trains but some are paying very much more and some are paying a fair bit less. It is much easier to find out about the trains you want to use and you can still have a very high degree of confidence that it wont be involved in an accident. Still, given the extraordinary amount of additional subsidy which is now required to run overall a similar level of service, my judgement is that wed have been better off giving BR which was always starved of finance the additional cash and letting them get on with running the railway.

